Safety

[Anonymous]

Hello

We are planning to go to South-Africa early next year. We will be travelling by car for two weeks between Capetown and Port Elizabeth by car. I have heard quite a lot of "bad" stories about crime in South Africa. Can anybody inform me what your experiences were, is it really that bad or....

Thanks

[HandMade]

It is true that in the major cities in South Africa there are areas where crime can be a problem; however this is also true for many major cities in the world. Comparisons are difficult as many 'developed' countries are just simply better at masking the truth than we are. The drive from Cape Town to Port Elizabeth is probably the most picturesque drive you are ever likely to make. It offers the best weather all year round, the most beautiful beaches, forest walks, mountain hikes, and natural floral and rock sites in South Africa. Reports of crime along this route are extremely rare. The locals and local authorities work extremely hard to make sure tourists are safe as the tourism industry is the main source of income in the Garden Route.

There are common sense rules that you should follow, but these rules would apply to any country in the world. Crime is mainly in the big cities. Ask your travel agent to map out the risk areas in the cities you are visiting and simply just don't go there. The level of crime in the small towns along the Garden Route is very low when compared to the bigger cities. If you require more assistance mail the tourism office at info@gardenroute.org.za

Crime is relatively high in parts of South Africa due to the amount of unemployed people flocking to the big cities. Along the roads outside of the city reports of crime are rare. The crime level is highest after dark and probably closest to squatter camps (or legal settlement areas as they now are referred to), which essentially are at the outskirts of the cities. Unsafe would also be the deserted business areas after dark, as would be the case for any city in the world. The local tourism office or travel agent should be able to give you a map with indications of where squatter camps are located. The central city area, restaurants, hotels, shopping malls etc. are generally safe.

[Jeremy]

Caroline
We have bought a house in Knysna (Brenton on Sea) and like so many of our friends, miss the country when we are back in the UK. When you read the comments here in this Forum and elswhere we are not alone.

Like you, Mary and I had heard the stories of violence and crime but have never had any problem when in SA. That includes driving from Cape Town to Jo'berg and walking around some of the large large cities.

I am not saying that bad things do not occur but as has been said before, in any large City in the world anything can happen.
But for the benefit of others who say the UK is safe a couple of experiences.....

I visited a bakers a couple of months ago here in England. As always I recognised the accent of the lady behind the counter and commented about whether she missed SA. She told me that she could not wait to get back to Cape Town in another 3 months time. She went on to say that in all her time in SA she had never had a problem but she too had always heard about "the crime in SA", somewhat she felt unfairly.. Three days after arriving here in the UK, she was mugged whilst waiting for her train at Paddington station!

This weekend Mary and I came back home after a dinner party, around 2am, via a small market town called Dorking, near where we live. A woman in her 50's ran out towards the car we were driving, extremely terrified. She was homeless and lived there in the street, in a Volvo Estate. A man we saw hiding in a local residents garage had tried to rape her by breaking in to the car. We chased him away and took her to the Police station. It was closed, and the sign on the door said that due to staff shortages it had to now close at 5pm, please use the yellow phone outside the door. There was no reply for 10 minutes and at that point I used my mobile to phone the general number for assistance.

When the Police arrived at the police station, they told me they were based in another town and were the only Police officers in the area!

Sorry to have gone on, but there are some pretty scary things happening here in the UK too!

Regards
Jeremy

[Anonymous]

IT was with great interest that I read the comments on crime that seems to be happening all over the world. We had one of the most horrendous experiences one can imagine happen to us whilst living in Gauteng and since then have been toying with the idea of leaving SA and going overseas in the hope of finding 'paradise'. It now seems that 'paradise' does not exist. (By the way, we now live in the Garden Route - George) I must add that I have also been encouraged greatly by other viewers' comments regards working together to make SA a paradise. It will be hard work yes, but if we work together and pull in the same direction, it can work.

Actually, I find it rather exciting. For the first time in 7 years I am beginning to see a hint of the light coming through from the silver lining around the dark cloud. Maybe I should adopt my childrens attitude: Live life to the fullest, tomorrow you die.

Thank you everybody for your positive comments and input. I feel that today is truly the first day of the rest of my life. I can start living and planning for the future again.

[Anonymous]

Charmaine,

(my sister's name is Charmaine, I don't come across people too often with that name. Its French, I believe)

I would agree with your sentiments. South Africa is not as bad as people tend to describe it. It can't be. At times I think many people are fixated on this crime rate issue. Mainly, it comes down to the point that many whose focus on this issue, have never been to South Africa. They are armchair tourists, who "know a place by what they have read in the newspapers" Not exactly a reliable perspective, that......

I feel that the tide has turned and over the coming years (say, 5 to 10) people will gradually find out "their safety perspective" was also a refelction of their own state of mind. One can easily convince oneself that the sky is falling and that the "end is near". It is all too easy to beleive something if you hear it frequently enough.

I would guess that much of the concern voiced (say, 40% of the reason) over crime rates in SA has to do with its speed of change, rather than the absolute amount of crime. Secondly it has to to with location specific crime as the majority of crime occurs in the same areas time and time agian, and third the level of crime anxiety has to do with how people read into the news what they want to hear.

To listen when people talk about South Africa, outside of the country, one is lead to believe that there are rapists and robbers behind every tree, in all the wheat fields, in the bush and in the city centers. Everywhere and anywhere. Yet obviously, it can't be the case. It is just that while some of the crime is horrendous, it does not mean that it is all-pervasive.

I have traveled a reasonable amount around SA (as a Yankee) enough to know when those "crime stories" are being stretched. I look at it this way....there is very little crime in Iraq, or in North Korea, but that doesn't mean I would choose those places over South Africa. The place has just too much beuty and potential.

Give me the Garden route anyday!

[Marc]

Charmaine,

I was not logged on when I made those comments, The "guest" was me. Woops.

[kindaconfuzed]

Guest

I must say I agree with your comments, crime (the amount of it) seems to be judged from a very personal perspective. While some countries may have such a high crime rate that their private homes are barbed wired etc while others tend to judge on what they read or how it has affected them (or friends they know).

I live in a town west of London and my son was robbed at 8pm in a populated area while going to a friends. This devastated him (and us) and it has taken quite some time to get over it. I realise it is only a relatively minor incident in the overall crime scene so I can imagine how something more serious could affect people.

A few years ago I wanted to help society and joined up as a policeman (part time special) to help people but most of the incidents were related to drink and fights as I spent most of the night in the market square trying to prevent fights. Most of the incidents where drink related and while the pubs have security inside it was left to the police to sort the problems out outside. As more of our towns have more and more pubs in them with ever extended drinking hours all this adds to the police work without any extra resources. It seems to me that the pubs should contribute to the extra security that is needed.

A previous writer touched on the issue of not being able to raise the police, may I suggest it sounds like he used the wrong method, if he had phoned 999 then they would have responded rather than what sounds like a country police station. The natural inclination is to blame the police when you do not get an immediate response to an incident that is very traumatic for the individuals involved.

The police, when busy, have to prioritise, and that is something else that needs to be considered. It seems the only sure way of measuring the increase in crime is from statistics but this can be fudged to give the result you want which leaves us back to judging from personal involvement.

I must admit that I now no lomger think I live in a safe place and all the incidents reported in the paper which I probably glossed over now confirm my views that the town is a violent place.

I think the average UK citizen would be shocked to know how many police are on duty at any one time in any city but then most citizens are basically law abiding. I think as long as there is crime the publics perspective will be that there are not sufficient police.

Not sure if this helps!

kinda (confuzed)

[Anonymous]

:cry: I have to disagree to some extent with kindaconfused on the matter of the police. I believe each country is very different and things are done differently. Believe me when I say that corruption in the police force in this country is rife! Example: Our main Television Channel is running programmes showing in detail a day in the life of a highjacker! The TV crew goes around with these criminals, recording their every move. They actually tell you on camera how they commit certain crimes, how the local police are involved in the crime, how they know that every day could be their last etc. etc. Justice? You're kidding. Human rights, yes! The criminals' rights yes. Unfortunately it has become a fact of life that in this country at present the victim has very little or no rights. Apologies. The matter of crime is very close to heart and home to be objective. I do try though. I wish there were more people like yourself who believe in justice to join the police force. Maybe things would take a turn for the better and there could be hope???

[kindaconfuzed]

Jenny,

I'm not sure that I disagree with you as I was talking from a UK perspective, I wouldn't be so crass (hopefully) to discuss the situation in SA where the problems I guess are different.

I think we have to remember that there is the law made by government, and the government is voted in by the people, there is justice which is the the government making laws and then their is the police, whose job it is to interpret the law and arrest and prosecute criminals.

Critiscm of the police goes on over here and I also have critisicm of the UK police. The police have to interpret the law and sometimes the law lets them down and sometimes the police let the public down. When I recently criticised the local police the inspector became very abrupt and said "well make an official complaint then", I responded by saying why can't we just discuss sensibly and deal with the matter which he agreed to do but it was touch and go.

I think if it had gone to a formal complaint then it would have gone into the system and just come out as a standard response. I think they are so used to complaints they just become a matter of routine dealing with them, so the attitude of the police seems to be if you dont like what I tell you then complain (and see where that gets you!).

I was driving out of my house one morning when a drunk driver knocked down a cyclist and I gave chase in my car (not in the police at this time). The chase went on for some time and I managed to phone the police from my mobile while following him. The drunk driver drove into a large unlit playing field and stopped and the police hadn't arrived so I had to decide what to do. I managed to get the driver down as he ran off and eventually the police arrived and they thanked me. I admit to being in a bit of shock at the time, events had taken over as I can assure you I am not brave. Anyway I thought I might get a formal thanks from the police but nothing happened and when I contacted the police they said they couldn't (more like wouldn't) trace the case but if it happened as I had told them then thanks.

So why did I do, at the time I was furious at the lack of respect from the police but put it down to me expecting too much. Would I do it again - well I'm not sure, as I said before events just took over and if I did it wouldn't be to help the police, as they have lost my respect. Don't they realise that as a member of the public I am a customer of theirs and I judge how they behave towards me.

I guess deep down I accept its not them personaly but a system that overworks them, and makes them lose touch with the public (non criminal ones).

When I joined the police I had a high idealistic view of them, I guess my view now is more realistic that they are only human and overworked and lacking in PR skills and very inexperienced in dealing with non criminals.

Kinda (disillusioned)

[Anonymous]

Normally I live in Germany, which is very safe country. Every year my wife and me stay several month in Mossel Bay and the Garden Route. To my feeling, this is a very safe area. Our house in Mossel Bay :D has been empty for several month and we had no break in. I really was surprise by that.

[WRSA]

Hi guys

All the foreigners that want to visit our country, please do. Yes we have a very high crime rate, but you as a person needs to make a few adjustments wen travelling through our country. When I travel around I follow the following rules, and enjoy every minute of my visit. Try it, you will see it works.

1. Don't leave your valuables lying in your vehicles.
2. Don't flash your money around.
3. Don't trust anybody that you don't know.
4. When you need held, walk into a shop, information office or a
travel agent and get info from them.
5. Last but not least, be wake up, dont be silly and think our country is
so lovely that the crime wont affect you, it does!

If you are carefull, you will be fine. Come on down guys, have fun and enjoy yourself, with the tips I have given you, you pobably wont even know we have crime. But as warned in a previous thread, our crime is highest in major cities, so if possible stick to the smaller places. Head down to George, there the people are great and you are welcomed.

[Twister]

South Africa is as safe as houses. As long as you are not in the house when its being robbed.

[HandMade]

The safety of the Garden Route has been discussed numerous times on this forum. A strong point made during these posts is that crime is a problem in every country; some governments simply hide the statistics better than others. The South African media looks to have adopted the stance that making crimes public is a lot better than sweeping them under the carpet, even though this is extremely bad for tourism. In addition, top online media sites are hooked up to police reports, which are used by radio stations and a host of other media outlets. In addition to being "easy reporting" it also leaves one with the impression that crime in South Africa is extremely bad compared to other countries. Simply browse any of the top South African online news sites and see for yourself that little else other than crime makes the headlines.

The truth is that crime is a problem in certain parts of every country or city. The recent horrendous Knysna murders widely publicized has generated extremely bad publicity for Knysna and definitely creates the impression that Knysna is unsafe, yet if one had to seriously consider South African crime statistics over the last 10 years Knysna would barely be worthy of a rating.

Having lived in Johannesburg for many years and in the Garden Route for past 10 years I can say that I certainly do not consider crime in the Garden Route as a concern. As in every town and city there are places you do not visit and precautions you take when you travel around. The Garden Route compared to the bigger cities is a paradise, yet the lure of easy money will always attract unwanted elements as hard as this may be to comprehend

[Ric]

London (CNSNews.com) - Annual statistics released by London's Metropolitan Police department have confirmed the British capital is in the midst of a serious crime wave, with a nearly 40 percent jump in street crime.

In 2001-02, police recorded more than 1 million total crimes and nearly 70,000 street crimes, a category that includes offenses such as muggings and purse snatchings. The street crime figure represents a jump of about 20,000 over the previous year. On average, there have been about 190 muggings per day in London over the past year.

In the same period, the number of rapes increased by 14 percent and both burglaries and car crime increased by about 5 percent.

Even the number of murders, a relatively rare crime in Britain, rose from 171 to 190, an increase of 11 percent. Crime detection rates fell slightly, from 15 percent to 14 percent. Londoners are about six times more likely to be mugged than New Yorkers, and statistics indicate that violent crime is on the rise across the country.

In February, London's top police officers were given six months to deliver significant improvements in preventing and solving street crime.

Home Secretary David Blunkett has warned that the national government could intervene if crime reduction targets are not met. London's figures are expected to be echoed by crime statistics released later this spring by Britain's other major cities.

Police are still at a loss to explain the dramatic increase in crime figures. Some authorities blame a rise in mobile phone ownership and theft, while others say some of the rise can be attributed to an increase in gang-related violence.

The Metropolitan Police have set up a special unit to handle black-on-black gun crime and have targeted street patrols to some of London's worse areas. Initial reports indicate that the programs have cut the crime rate in some areas, but it is still too early to tell if they have been entirely successful.

Police also acknowledge a problem with the proliferation of illegal guns. Handguns are banned under British law, but homemade or converted weapons have been increasingly popular amongst criminals.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Tim Godwin noted that an extra 1,500 officers were moved out of mainly residential areas and into central London to work on anti-terror patrols in the wake of Sept. 11.

"As a result, we reprioritised at the start of this year and diverted officers from other duties to tackle street crime," he said.

Godwin said that arrests for muggings had risen 35 percent and that the police were also catching more drug dealers and burglars.

"We have to look at why so many people, particularly young people, are engaging in crime and how we can work ... to prevent it," he said.

The figures were announced less than a week after the release of a report on community relations that said London police had lost some of the ability "to respond effectively to low-level crime and disorder." The study found a significant reduction in public confidence in the police.